[SPC] SW Super Heroes...

Information and comments on all Pinnacle original Savage Settings plus our genre-based Companions. Please note the product with an abbreviation in the Subject line (ex. [FC] for Fantasy Companion, [NE] for Necessary Evil, and so on). Note: Deadlands has its own forum below as do licensed settings.

Moderators: PEG Jodi, The Moderators

Message
Author
Karl Green
Novice
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:38 pm
Location: Seattle WA

[SPC] SW Super Heroes...

#1 Postby Karl Green » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:01 pm

So I was playing with my face-to-face group some Savage Worlds Supers a while back over the holidays (as lots of our regular group was out of town) and had some random thoughts about it.

First and foremost was the glass cannons problem (big powerful attacks with really low toughness in return) resulting in lots of one-shot fights. I mostly forced people to up something to make them more survivable and it kind of worked (higher Toughness, high Soak rolls, higher defenses like Unnatural Reflexes or Deflect/Parry, etc.).

Now overall we had a good time with the game, it was kind of gritty too began with, and lots of evil mooks (Extras) for the heroes to blaze through before facing off against the evil villains, and had a lot of good fun. But the one thing we notice is that when you got taken out of a fight that was that (unless you had regen), which I didn’t think was very super-hero like. I kind of wanted the heroes (and sometimes the villains) to get knocked down (suffer 4 wounds, etc.) but be able to do something to come back afterwards.

We have been thinking about some ideas but I wanted to know what others thought. DO you think this is a problem of Super-comic or not? Should super-people be able to come back after getting knocked down OR should they just be out of the fight? Now I don’t want it so much for villains (except maybe the important one who needs to do something) but if the player’s hero gets taken out in the first round because of a lucky shot and a bunch of unlucky Soak rolls, should they have a chance to come back later?

I was kind of thinking about allowing them to burn a Benny to make a Soak roll after a round of being taken out. You still have to record how many Wounds you have and it might take you multiple rounds (you only can recover this way once a round) but I am not sure if this is too good or not.

Anyway just a random thought for Supers games and heroes… thoughts? Input??

Thanks
"life is pain princess, anyone telling your different is selling something"
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquivistive idiots"

ValhallaGH
Legendary
Posts: 8059
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:15 pm

Re: [SPC] SW Super Heroes...

#2 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:26 pm

Eh, characters don't have to be fragile, but offense is sexier than defense so players usually neglect their defenses for their offensive abilities. Plus, "they died before they could attack" is a viable defensive strategy - until they don't die. :twisted:
Absorption is a surprisingly powerful defensive ability. Especially when taken for a common weapon in setting (light for lasers, metal for slug throwers, kinetic for particle accelerators, etc.), or elemental type that includes almost all weapons (absorption (metal) with Matter Master, in an Old West Supers campaign, for example).

Acing damage dice does make it possible for any character to be one-shot (assuming the damage is allowed to roll; don't undervalue the Heavy Armor modifier). I consider that a feature, not a bug, but it is sometimes thematically problematic in a supers game.
Karl Green wrote:I kind of wanted the heroes (and sometimes the villains) to get knocked down (suffer 4 wounds, etc.) but be able to do something to come back afterwards.

Understandable, but if no one in the party took any of the abilities needed to get back in a fight, especially the healing power, then they are like a D&D party without a Cleric or other healer - doomed to a short and glorious life. :lol:
As a game master, you can always put "excellent medical equipment" into the setting, letting anyone carry around a StimPak or NE-MeD (Nano-technology Emergency Medical Device) or comic book Smelling Salts. Those would probably allow a Healing skill check as an action to remove Incapacitation. Great for getting folks moving again, but it's not a super power that removes damage. :wink:

Alternately, or additionally, it sounds like a new benny use. Something like "Spend a benny to make an immediate Natural Healing roll. If it's been less than 10 minutes since the injury occurred then ignore the medical care modifier." ... Actually, that's not that different from using a Power Stunt to get regeneration; just being able to do it while Incapacitated, which is pretty odd.

Karl Green wrote:We have been thinking about some ideas but I wanted to know what others thought. DO you think this is a problem of Super-comic or not? Should super-people be able to come back after getting knocked down OR should they just be out of the fight? Now I don’t want it so much for villains (except maybe the important one who needs to do something) but if the player’s hero gets taken out in the first round because of a lucky shot and a bunch of unlucky Soak rolls, should they have a chance to come back later?

It's a matter of tastes and style. Personally, I'm all for making players live with the consequences of their actions, including having to spectate for much of the battle (though I'll usually let them have a benny or two they can share with the party, or something else to stay engaged). But not everyone thinks or acts like I do, and some people have fun different ways than I do, so my methods don't work for everyone.

Good luck!
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

Freemage
Veteran
Posts: 842
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: [SPC] SW Super Heroes...

#3 Postby Freemage » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:35 pm

One-shots absolutely will happen in Savage Worlds, no matter what you do about it, short of putting a hard cap on damage. For a Supers campaign (only), I might sign off on a Setting Rule: Mook Limitation, that states that Extras cannot actually inflict more than a single wound on an attack (after Soak rolls), no matter how high the damage total is, unless they're using a Heavy Weapon. (Getting hit by a mob goon who managed to get his hands on a Stinger Missile is going to hurt, even for a comic-book campaign.) Wild Cards would be unaffected by this rule--they should always have the chance, however unlikely, of one-shotting an opponent.

An immediate consequence of this that I can see is that players would be more likely to just accept a high-raise damage result from a Mook, saving their Bennies for single-raise hits (from mooks) or damage from Wild Card opponents.

User avatar
Jounichi
Legendary
Posts: 2716
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:51 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA

Re: [SPC] SW Super Heroes...

#4 Postby Jounichi » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:51 pm

An arguably better solution for handling Extras is capping their damage so the dice can't ace. I lifted that right from TAG's pulp rules (a progenitor genre to superheroes), but that's not really the issue here. Damage numbers in supers games can get awful high real fast. Putting aside the setting rules which make it nearly impossible to die, it's still pretty easy to one-shot someone when you're rolling 4d6 damage and they don't invest heavily in defensive abilities. Stacking armor and raw toughness is fine and dandy, but penalties are just as good (if not better). Heck, even using the minion power to keep a couple sponges around isn't a terrible idea.

Effectively utilizing the rules requires arguably a stronger understanding of tactics because combat is just so much larger than normal.
"Rush not in to fights. Long is the war. Only by surviving it, will you prevail." -Yoda
"Wise man once say, 'forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza.'" -Michelangelo

Karl Green
Novice
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:38 pm
Location: Seattle WA

Re: [SPC] SW Super Heroes...

#5 Postby Karl Green » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:53 am

Hmm that is some interesting ideas... I have to think about it some more before the next Supers game I run... I kind of like that Mooks can only inflict some much damage (without a Heavy Weapon), but not being able to Ace might also work. Have to think about it.

Now this weekend I am running Savage Worlds Rifts so none of this will apply. Just my thoughts on how to make Supers a bit more Superheroy :)
"life is pain princess, anyone telling your different is selling something"

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquivistive idiots"


Return to “SW Pinnacle Original Settings & Companions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest