Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

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Ryche
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#241 Postby Ryche » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:31 pm

Palladion wrote:The Battle Fury Blade weighs 7 lb., not 17 lb. (Rifts Federation of Magic page 119)
NG-L5 and NG-LG6 are the same laser rifle, one does not do more damage than the other (Rifts Northern Gun 1 page 193), it is the grenade damage that is listed differently.

Clint can weigh in when he gets back from Gen Con, but the SR is not a direct conversion. Some things were changed to fit the Savage Worlds rules. I also, believe if you skim through this thread the laser rifle has already been discussed.

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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#242 Postby Palladion » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:11 pm

Ryche wrote:
Palladion wrote:NG-L5 and NG-LG6 are the same laser rifle, one does not do more damage than the other (Rifts Northern Gun 1 page 193), it is the grenade damage that is listed differently.

Clint can weigh in when he gets back from Gen Con, but the SR is not a direct conversion. Some things were changed to fit the Savage Worlds rules. I also, believe if you skim through this thread the laser rifle has already been discussed.


"An L5 Laser Rifle mated with a full-size grenade launcher, the LG6 can unleash any grenade type in NG’s inventory." This is not a mechanical or numerical difference, this is the exact same rifle that does different damage when converted Savage Rifts. An NG-LG6 is the same laser rifle as an NG-L5, they should either both deal 3d6 or 3d6+2 damage, not different damages.

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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#243 Postby Fponkdamn » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:15 pm


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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#244 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:34 am

Exalted damage field does not mention that it is Mega Damage, though the notes on page 108 say it is.
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#245 Postby Damian Magecraft » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:47 pm

Palladion wrote:
Ryche wrote:
Palladion wrote:NG-L5 and NG-LG6 are the same laser rifle, one does not do more damage than the other (Rifts Northern Gun 1 page 193), it is the grenade damage that is listed differently.

Clint can weigh in when he gets back from Gen Con, but the SR is not a direct conversion. Some things were changed to fit the Savage Worlds rules. I also, believe if you skim through this thread the laser rifle has already been discussed.


"An L5 Laser Rifle mated with a full-size grenade launcher, the LG6 can unleash any grenade type in NG’s inventory." This is not a mechanical or numerical difference, this is the exact same rifle that does different damage when converted Savage Rifts. An NG-LG6 is the same laser rifle as an NG-L5, they should either both deal 3d6 or 3d6+2 damage, not different damages.
2 points is not going to break the game. (If it bothers you that much change it for your game).
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#246 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:11 pm

Damian Magecraft wrote:2 points is not going to break the game.

+2 is a huge modifier in this game. If it's actually wrong then it needs to be corrected.
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#247 Postby wilcoxon » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:10 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:2 points is not going to break the game.

+2 is a huge modifier in this game. If it's actually wrong then it needs to be corrected.


+2 on a trait roll is pretty huge. +2 on damage is not (it makes a difference but not much).

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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#248 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:08 am

Wild Attack, Berserk, 3RB, Brawler, and Martial Arts Master all give +2 to damage. All of those are considered good to amazing.

+2 damage is about as good as +1 attack. +1 to a Trait roll is a big freaking bonus in this game. +2 to damage is also a big deal; it's not +4 to damage, but it is a big deal.
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#249 Postby Damian Magecraft » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:20 am

ValhallaGH wrote:Wild Attack, Berserk, 3RB, Brawler, and Martial Arts Master all give +2 to damage. All of those are considered good to amazing.

+2 damage is about as good as +1 attack. +1 to a Trait roll is a big freaking bonus in this game. +2 to damage is also a big deal; it's not +4 to damage, but it is a big deal.
given the damage codes of the weapons a +2 is not going to make that much of a difference.
At 3d6 the average is 11
At 3d6+2 it is 13
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#250 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:48 pm

Damian Magecraft wrote:given the damage codes of the weapons a +2 is not going to make that much of a difference.
At 3d6 the average is 11
At 3d6+2 it is 13

First, your averages are wrong.
3d6 averages 12.6 damage. 4.2 per die, three dice. Because damage in Savage Worlds can ace, and for a d6 4.2 is the average result including acing.*
3d6+2 averages 14.6 damage.

Second, average human toughness is 5. Add the light and cheap NG Maverick armor and you end up with 10 (4) toughness.
AP 2 means that average damage from the L5 causes one wound to typical person, incapacitating Extras who are that tough. It will cause a Shaken result for any tougher humans (Vigor d8+, Brawny Edge, Obese Hindrance, better armor, etc.).
Average damage from the L6 causes one wound to typical person, incapacitating Extras who are that tough. It also causes one wound to humans with a natural Toughness of up to 7 (Vigor d10, Brawny and Vigor d8, etc.).

For the folks on the receiving end, that can be a very big deal. When a typical Crazy (Toughness 12 (5)) is looking at the difference between Shaken and one wound from average damage by what is ostensibly the same gun, that +2 is clearly a significant difference.

*Die averages:
d4 = 3.3
d6 = 4.2
d8 = 5.1
d10 = 6.1
d12 = 7.1
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#251 Postby Damian Magecraft » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:14 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:given the damage codes of the weapons a +2 is not going to make that much of a difference.
At 3d6 the average is 11
At 3d6+2 it is 13

First, your averages are wrong.
3d6 averages 12.6 damage. 4.2 per die, three dice. Because damage in Savage Worlds can ace, and for a d6 4.2 is the average result including acing.*
3d6+2 averages 14.6 damage.

Second, average human toughness is 5. Add the light and cheap NG Maverick armor and you end up with 10 (4) toughness.
AP 2 means that average damage from the L5 causes one wound to typical person, incapacitating Extras who are that tough. It will cause a Shaken result for any tougher humans (Vigor d8+, Brawny Edge, Obese Hindrance, better armor, etc.).
Average damage from the L6 causes one wound to typical person, incapacitating Extras who are that tough. It also causes one wound to humans with a natural Toughness of up to 7 (Vigor d10, Brawny and Vigor d8, etc.).

For the folks on the receiving end, that can be a very big deal. When a typical Crazy (Toughness 12 (5)) is looking at the difference between Shaken and one wound from average damage by what is ostensibly the same gun, that +2 is clearly a significant difference.

*Die averages:
d4 = 3.3
d6 = 4.2
d8 = 5.1
d10 = 6.1
d12 = 7.1

In my play experience acing doesn't happen often enough for me to factor it into the averages for eyeballing a call on whether something is game breaking or not.
And the weapon damage in question is one of those cases. If it were a whole extra die my stance would probably be different. But as it currently stands? If/when they change it I will make adjustments accordingly until then it is not that big of a deal.
As a GM I live by one hard and fast rule:

It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"

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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#252 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:04 pm

Damian Magecraft wrote:In my play experience acing doesn't happen often enough for me to factor it into the averages for eyeballing a call on whether something is game breaking or not.

So you haven't played much Savage Worlds then.
Well, everyone has to be new at some point.

I will mention that if you ignore acing, +2 damage is almost as good as +1d6, on average. +2 versus +3.5. Pretty darn close.
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#253 Postby Damian Magecraft » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:16 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:In my play experience acing doesn't happen often enough for me to factor it into the averages for eyeballing a call on whether something is game breaking or not.

So you haven't played much Savage Worlds then.
Well, everyone has to be new at some point.

I will mention that if you ignore acing, +2 damage is almost as good as +1d6, on average. +2 versus +3.5. Pretty darn close.
almost two years now. Acing making an actual difference has been a 1 in 50 occurrence (that is not to say acing doesn't happen more frequently just that it having a measurable impact has not been more than that).

Yes a plus 2 on a single die is significant.
On multiple dice? The impact lessens considerably.
As a GM I live by one hard and fast rule:

It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"

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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#254 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:24 pm

Damian Magecraft wrote:Acing making an actual difference has been a 1 in 50 occurrence (that is not to say acing doesn't happen more frequently just that it having a measurable impact has not been more than that).

Wow. Either dice hate your table or your table doesn't stretch their reach as much as my tables do.

Acing matters about 1 in 15 rolls for us. Usually by providing a raise (or more), but also by being necessary for basic success (lots of penalties).
Damian Magecraft wrote:On multiple dice? The impact lessens considerably.

No, static damage is the best damage, and adding any of it is powerful.
You mentioned being concerned if the damage disparity had been a full die. I was pointing out that the current disparity is half a die. Which is apparently below your concern threshold.
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#255 Postby Malifice » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:29 pm

Damian Magecraft wrote:almost two years now. Acing making an actual difference has been a 1 in 50 occurrence (that is not to say acing doesn't happen more frequently just that it having a measurable impact has not been more than that).


Wow. Every attack features 2 dice (Wild Die and Trait Die) and around three-four dice for damage. With 5-6 rolls happening for a single attack, and most combatants taking multiple actions per turn, acing should be happeneing most player turns.

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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#256 Postby Damian Magecraft » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:59 pm

Malifice wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:almost two years now. Acing making an actual difference has been a 1 in 50 occurrence (that is not to say acing doesn't happen more frequently just that it having a measurable impact has not been more than that).


Wow. Every attack features 2 dice (Wild Die and Trait Die) and around three-four dice for damage. With 5-6 rolls happening for a single attack, and most combatants taking multiple actions per turn, acing should be happeneing most player turns.
note the phrasing "measureable impact" meaning that in one out of 50 rolls acing actually made a difference on the outcome.
As a GM I live by one hard and fast rule:

It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"

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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#257 Postby Damian Magecraft » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:04 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:Acing making an actual difference has been a 1 in 50 occurrence (that is not to say acing doesn't happen more frequently just that it having a measurable impact has not been more than that).

Wow. Either dice hate your table or your table doesn't stretch their reach as much as my tables do.
combination of the latter and builds geared towards getting consistent Raises over reliance on aces.
As a GM I live by one hard and fast rule:

It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"

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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#258 Postby pkitty » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:24 pm

Guys, none of this is errata. We're not supposed to have tangents in this thread.
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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#259 Postby shuntsu » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:04 pm

Does anyone know when the aug 1 updates for the print run will be posted to drivethrurpg?

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Re: Savage Rifts® Player's Guide Errata

#260 Postby Spamotron » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:17 pm

I think either the SFD Huntsman armor (Page 80) or the NG Maverick armor (Page 79) needs something tweaked. Edit: and the NGRA15 Cannonball Ride Armor (Page 79)

The Huntsman: + 5 Armor, d6 Strength Minimum, Cost: 24,000 cr.

The Cannonball Ride: + 4 Armor + 1 Toughness, D6 Strength Minimum, Cost: 22,500 cr. (Also has the in fluff bonus of being street legal in most communities something the Huntsman is not)

The Maverick: + 4 Armor, + 1 Toughness, No strength Minimum, Cost: 14,500 cr.

The NG Maverick seems better in every way at two-thirds the price.

Edit: Found two more

The UW-3C Urban Warrior (Page 81): + 6 Armor, Full Environmental, d8 Strength Minimum, Cost: 35,000 cr.

The SFD Bushman (Page 79): + 5 Armor, + 1 Toughness, Full Environmental, d8 Strength Minimum, Cost: 32,000 cr.

The Bushman is clearly better but is 3,000 cr. cheaper.

Another Edit:

The Triax T-10 Cyclops (Page 80): + 6 Armor, + 1 Toughness, Strength Minimum D6

The Triax T-12 Field Medic (Page 80): + 6 Armor, + 1 Toughness, No Strength Minimum

The Triax T-13 Field Mechanic (Pages 80-81): + 6 Armor, + 2 Toughness, No Strength Minimum

The T-12 and T-13 are loaded with special tools to aid healing and repair respectively while having the same or better protection than the T-10 while also being lighter. They're more expensive as well but I thought the aforementioned special tools explained that.

At this point maybe all the armors need to be looked at.
Last edited by Spamotron on Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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