[Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

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dentris
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[Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#1 Postby dentris » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:37 am

After I finished reading the Player's Guide for the first time, I realized I had more concept in my head than I could ever conceivably play. And most of them where absolutly bonkers in term of power and destructive abilities. The min-maxer in me then had fun at deconstructing the system and find ways to create complete monsters. Some were one-trick ponies, others had surprisingly effective combos and some clearly broke the spirit of the rules.

This thread is the place to share these over-the-top concepts. Please note this a not a place to complain about how a specific framework or combo is better than something else. In fact, some of the examples are weird combos and any sane GM would flatly refuse to implement in his game. This is simply a way to have fun with the insane power-level of Rifts.

So the rules are simple:

1. The concept should, right at character creation, be clearly superior in one or more aspect of SW than other concepts.
2. While some creative interpretations of the rules are welcome, be sure to check if a specific combo wasn't already banned or clarified in the Q&A section.
3. I love SW and I enjoy the Rifts conversion. This is not a place to complain or whine, but to show-off your munchkin skills.




The Melee Burster

Bursters have a really fun ability, Fiery Aura, which gives them the ability, among others, to add 3d6 to all Fighting damage...Needless to say, this allows them to break the damage limit of everything else in the book (excluding AP)

With a few lucky rolls of the Hero's Journey, the Burster is able to acquire the Thunderer Combat Hammer, for a great total of Str+d10+6d6 damage. Since this is based on Strength, a high attribute increases the potential damage output directly, which can be further increased by carefully selecting as strong race (Altara, Bog-Boy or Lin-Sryal). If the GM's allow it, you can also create your own D-Bee and pump as much strength upgrade as you can get away with. For the purpose of this thread, however, I will assume a Lin-Sryal PC who maximized his Strength attribute, which has the added advantage of multiple attacks should he ever acquire a second Thunderer.

With a few tweak here and there, it's easy for the Burster to acquire the Smite and Boost/Lower traits powers and the Master Psionic Edge, increasing its damage even more.

The end result, with his two activated powers with a raise (which can be easy with the right rolls on the Psionic table), is a damage output of d12+d10+6d6+13, for an average of 51 points of damage (considering the possibility of exploding dice), Mega-Damage of course.


The Power armor pilot and his sidekick

Why choose between the M.A.R.S. PA pilot framework and the Glitter Boy when you can have both? As confirmed by Clint, you can take the Sidekick Edge at character creation and the newly-created Novice character comes with his own framework. Therefore, a PA pilot PC could theorically take that Edge and choose a Glitter Boy pilot as his sidekick. Now, nothing (except the GM of course) prevents him to switch his own PA with his sidekick's, with the end result of having all the benefits of the M.A.R.S framework AND a Glitter Boy armor, for the measly cost of an Edge. In addition, you sidekick is still able to participate in the fight, having your old Power Armor at his disposal and being a Wild Card himself.



Feel free to continue the madness.
But the Voice consoles me and it says: "Keep your dreams;
Wise men do not have such beautiful ones as fools!"
--Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal, 1857, Translated by William Aggeler, 1954

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#2 Postby OracleBoyd » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:00 am

Heh,

I had noticed both of these and actually like the idea of the Glitterboy and his squire a lot. I had not thought about maximizing Burster to quite that extent though.

I noticed 2 other pretty good ones:

1. An Antara Crazy or Juicer starts with D10s in all Physical stats.

2. A Cyber Knight can take Improved Cyberkinetic Awareness in creation. With their 2 free Combat edges they can be -5 to hit against pretty much every weapon they encounter. Add in a free action use of Deflection and this becomes -7/-9.

They can take Denial if they want to as well. Lets just turn off that Power Armor you're wearing for a while shall we...

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#3 Postby TSandman » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:24 am

dentris wrote:The Power armor pilot and his sidekick

Why choose between the M.A.R.S. PA pilot framework and the Glitter Boy when you can have both? As confirmed by Clint, you can take the Sidekick Edge at character creation and the newly-created Novice character comes with his own framework. Therefore, a PA pilot PC could theorically take that Edge and choose a Glitter Boy pilot as his sidekick. Now, nothing (except the GM of course) prevents him to switch his own PA with his sidekick's, with the end result of having all the benefits of the M.A.R.S framework AND a Glitter Boy armor, for the measly cost of an Edge. In addition, you sidekick is still able to participate in the fight, having your old Power Armor at his disposal and being a Wild Card himself.


There actually *IS* a small GB armour named Side-Kick...

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#4 Postby ABCoLD » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:56 pm

dentris wrote:
The Power armor pilot and his sidekick

Why choose between the M.A.R.S. PA pilot framework and the Glitter Boy when you can have both? As confirmed by Clint, you can take the Sidekick Edge at character creation and the newly-created Novice character comes with his own framework. Therefore, a PA pilot PC could theorically take that Edge and choose a Glitter Boy pilot as his sidekick. Now, nothing (except the GM of course) prevents him to switch his own PA with his sidekick's, with the end result of having all the benefits of the M.A.R.S framework AND a Glitter Boy armor, for the measly cost of an Edge. In addition, you sidekick is still able to participate in the fight, having your old Power Armor at his disposal and being a Wild Card himself.



Feel free to continue the madness.

Now to be fair, no GM worth his card is gonna let this slide. But it seems like Power Armor isn't terribly affected by the death of a pilot. (Though I could have missed an important rule!) So if an arrogant/heroic GB pilot sidekick charges towards those 3 SAMAS or that UAR-1 Enforcer... as long as you have some Chlorox and a lottt of Febreeze you're good to go!

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#5 Postby Harshax » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:42 pm

ABCoLD wrote:Now to be fair, no GM worth his card is gonna let this slide. But it seems like Power Armor isn't terribly affected by the death of a pilot. (Though I could have missed an important rule!) So if an arrogant/heroic GB pilot sidekick charges towards those 3 SAMAS or that UAR-1 Enforcer... as long as you have some Chlorox and a lottt of Febreeze you're good to go!


That's a pretty messed up way to ensure you get GB armor for your PA Soldier and it only costs you a singled Edge. Plus, you don't have to play mother may I with the GM or wait to accumulate 50 mil in credits.

*slow clap*

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#6 Postby Damian Magecraft » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:02 pm

Harshax wrote:
ABCoLD wrote:Now to be fair, no GM worth his card is gonna let this slide. But it seems like Power Armor isn't terribly affected by the death of a pilot. (Though I could have missed an important rule!) So if an arrogant/heroic GB pilot sidekick charges towards those 3 SAMAS or that UAR-1 Enforcer... as long as you have some Chlorox and a lottt of Febreeze you're good to go!


That's a pretty messed up way to ensure you get GB armor for your PA Soldier and it only costs you a singled Edge. Plus, you don't have to play mother may I with the GM or wait to accumulate 50 mil in credits.

*slow clap*
better hope there were no critical failures during the combat...
technical difficulties setting rule.
one may want to consider adjusting how that rule works with PA and combat. I would consider a WC (side kicks are WCs) taking 4+ wounds at one go reason enough to roll a TD.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#7 Postby Lordfishbane » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:06 pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong but the GB pilot does not actually start with GB armor. At least it's not included in the starting equipment roster.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#8 Postby Damian Magecraft » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:34 pm

Lordfishbane wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong but the GB pilot does not actually start with GB armor. At least it's not included in the starting equipment roster.
You are wrong; listed right under Abilities and Bonuses is "Glitter Boy Armor: Power Armor of the
highest caliber (see sidebar)."
As a GM I live by one hard and fast rule:

It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#9 Postby Lordfishbane » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:35 am

Thanks for the info, I'm sure my G.M. Will be pleased :evil:
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#10 Postby Sitting Duck » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:13 am

Damian Magecraft wrote:
Lordfishbane wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong but the GB pilot does not actually start with GB armor. At least it's not included in the starting equipment roster.
You are wrong; listed right under Abilities and Bonuses is "Glitter Boy Armor: Power Armor of the
highest caliber (see sidebar)."


Yeah, it would be pretty silly if a Glitter Boy Pilot Iconic Framework didn't start off with a Glitter Boy.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#11 Postby dentris » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:28 am

BTW, I don not endorse that character build. As a GM, I would totally refuse such a character concept right off the bat. I simply pointed it out as something you could do according to the letter of the rules, but this is against its spirit.

So please don't try this at home.
But the Voice consoles me and it says: "Keep your dreams;

Wise men do not have such beautiful ones as fools!"

--Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal, 1857, Translated by William Aggeler, 1954

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#12 Postby Malifice » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:57 am

dentris wrote:BTW, I don not endorse that character build. As a GM, I would totally refuse such a character concept right off the bat. I simply pointed it out as something you could do according to the letter of the rules, but this is against its spirit.

So please don't try this at home.


It'd be much more fun to allow it, and then have the NPC sidekick blast the PC into oblivion, and then race off with both sets of armor.

PC: Hey buddy, can I borrow your GB armor?
SK: Umm... yeah sure.
PC: (Climbs out of armor). Right, your turn.
SK: Yeah.... look... thats not gonna happen. (click click)
PC: Why are you pointing that obscene gun at me?
SK: I'm gonna count to three... start running.
PC: But GM!
GM (as SK): START RUNNING!

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#13 Postby Wikrin » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:33 pm

Personal concept: Luck, Great Luck. Half-Folk, Young. MARS roll, trade for Fortune Favors the bold and Spiritual and Determined. 8 Bennies. Follow? Starting edges, take Arcane Background: Miracles and Profession to bump spirit to d12+1. Hero's journey, MARS characters can roll on any table, even if it doesn't make sense. Spend two rolls on Psionics, trade so you can spend a Benny to use spirit in place of a roll. With advancements, pick up Adept so you can Boost Traits yourself as a free action. Pick up Elan. (Psionics table ability technically modifies a trait roll, so it works.) Assuming you can get boost traits off, you can now roll minimum 1d12+4 eight times a session, to do anything you want. Love it.

Buddy helped with the concept. Assumes use of the Fantasy Companion. Otherwise go human, get Expert for the extra +1.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#14 Postby dentris » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:46 pm

Really a good idea.

And since the Joker is wild, every time a joker is drawn, you get another benny. So, as a Personal Concept MARS, you have two free edges, you should use those two free edges to buy AB and Professional, and bump your Smarts to d6 and buy Expert with your ''hindrance'' points. That way, for your advances (since you start at 20xp), you can increase your Smarts to d8 and select Level-Headed at Seasoned to get those bennies flowing more frenquently.

Now


The Walking Tank


While less powerful than other examples in this topic, it does show how much you can go when you dedicate yourself to survival.

If you have a Dog-Boy Cyber-Knight (Tough Breed), even the biggest available robot ends up being less armored and/or tough than him if he puts his mind to it.

With a maxed Vigor (d12) and the Master Cyber-Armor Edge, along with a few lucky rolls on the Hero's Journey (Background Edge - Brawny, Cyber-Knight Heavy Armor and +3 Armor/+1 Toughness), you can get, after buff (Boost Trait Vigor and Armor power), a total of 32(14) MDC or 34(17) MDC, whether you prefer more armor or more toughness.

It still allows for some improvement in the form of master psionics, the Improved Tough as Nails Legendary Edge and the Expert Legendary Edge, which can improve, given enough time, his Toughness to 42(20) MDC or 44(23) MDC


Please note that even then, he still gets blown into oblivion by the Melee Bursters
But the Voice consoles me and it says: "Keep your dreams;

Wise men do not have such beautiful ones as fools!"

--Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal, 1857, Translated by William Aggeler, 1954

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#15 Postby DMbobby » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:11 am

Wikrin wrote:Personal concept: Luck, Great Luck. Half-Folk, Young. MARS roll, trade for Fortune Favors the bold and Spiritual and Determined. 8 Bennies. Follow? Starting edges, take Arcane Background: Miracles and Profession to bump spirit to d12+1. Hero's journey, MARS characters can roll on any table, even if it doesn't make sense. Spend two rolls on Psionics, trade so you can spend a Benny to use spirit in place of a roll. With advancements, pick up Adept so you can Boost Traits yourself as a free action. Pick up Elan. (Psionics table ability technically modifies a trait roll, so it works.) Assuming you can get boost traits off, you can now roll minimum 1d12+4 eight times a session, to do anything you want. Love it.

Buddy helped with the concept. Assumes use of the Fantasy Companion. Otherwise go human, get Expert for the extra +1.

You can't do much, but what you can do is everything.


Damn Pete you beat me to sharing your character lol
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#16 Postby Malifice » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:25 am

dentris wrote:Please note that even then, he still gets blown into oblivion by the Melee Bursters


Ive already HR'd the +3d6 to only apply to [unarmed] Fighting attacks (and touch attacks).

Bursters and CK's are getting a few minor nerfs to tone both down

For CKs, Psi Sword is scaled down to Str+Spirits (AP 4). 2 ISP make it MDC. The improved version deals extra spirits die (AP 8 ). Greater allows 2 ISP for +4 damamge or 4 ISP for +8 damage (declared after hit or miss determined).

Bursters get a similar nerf to Fire Bolt (Imposing a -2 to hit with rapid bolts, and damage caps at 6d6, AP 10). Gonna have a closer look at them when I get home.

Love this thread by the way. Gives me a few things to keep an eye on!

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#17 Postby burningneuron » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:53 am

:o

* curls into a fetal ball *

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#18 Postby pkitty » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:05 pm

It occurs to me that you can exploit Toughness loopholes even more if you open up custom races:

The Unkillable (New D-Bee)
* Vigor d12 [8]
* Toughness +3 [3]
* Distinctive D-Bee [-2]
* Restricted Path (Both) [-2]
* Slow [-1]
* Heroic and Overconfident [-4]

Make him a Filthy Rich Glitter Boy. Use nine of your ten rolls on the Cybernetics table to score Reinforced Frame 3 and Synthetic Organ Replacement 6 (Vigor d12+6). Use the last roll to grab a Background Edge (Brawny). I could say "now dump all of your attribute points into Vigor," but even for this cheesed-out build, I can't go that far, so spend them on other attributes.

Innate Toughness without armor is 15. Get in your Glitter Boy and now it's 39 (21+18). Have a caster buff you with Exalted Boost Vigor and Exalted Armor (with Raises), and that goes to 51 (23+28).

There. Now there's finally someone tough enough to take on a hammering Burster. :)
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#19 Postby Fponkdamn » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:34 pm

Not an entire build, but it should be noted that Mystics have access to Shape Change, Summon Ally, and Warrior's Gift - which are the three most BONKERS powers with the Born A Hero setting rule. As has been clarified by Clint, all three of those powers count as the LEGENDARY version if taken at character creation with Born a Hero, which means a starting Mystic that takes them can TURN INTO A DRAGON, summon HALF A DOZEN COPIES OF HIMSELF, and give himself ANY TWO COMBAT EDGES OF ANY RANK any time he wants. Pretty nuts.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#20 Postby Ndreare » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:56 pm

Starting Line Walker at Ley Line can in the following order become awesome beyond belief and by absorbing from let line as a free action maintain the spells indefinitely. Buy up spell casting to d12
Combined with Magic table for free raise on boost. Gains one extra power from table and 5 extra PPE, the rest is just icing.

Round 1 drain PPE from let line, Boost Spell casting for +4 note casting at d12+4
Round 2 Free action to drain PPE, Cast two spells in round two rolling d12+2 after penalty Shape Change into dragon and Haste
Round 2.5 free action to drain PPE, boost Spell Casting again now d12+8 and Growth +10 stacked on top of being a dragon!
Round 3.0 free action to drain PPE cast Exalted Armor and use all remaining PPE to summon self duplicates at only 2 p p e after the first.
Round 3.5 free action to get more PPE, free action for duplicates to imitate your build, cast Boost Vigor for +4 vigor and use any PPE left for more duplicates.
Round 4.0 free action to maintain spells, free action to drain more ppe still under Haste it is time to organize your assault on that Psi-stalker and his four dog boy buddies that chased you. But did they mess up by letting you have 18 second alone.


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