[Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

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Renlim
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#101 Postby Renlim » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:56 pm

Wikrin wrote:Personal concept: Luck, Great Luck. Half-Folk, Young. MARS roll, trade for Fortune Favors the bold and Spiritual and Determined. 8 Bennies. Follow? Starting edges, take Arcane Background: Miracles and Profession to bump spirit to d12+1. Hero's journey, MARS characters can roll on any table, even if it doesn't make sense. Spend two rolls on Psionics, trade so you can spend a Benny to use spirit in place of a roll. With advancements, pick up Adept so you can Boost Traits yourself as a free action. Pick up Elan. (Psionics table ability technically modifies a trait roll, so it works.) Assuming you can get boost traits off, you can now roll minimum 1d12+4 eight times a session, to do anything you want. Love it.

Buddy helped with the concept. Assumes use of the Fantasy Companion. Otherwise go human, get Expert for the extra +1.

You can't do much, but what you can do is everything.


Ok, so I created an account just to thank Wikrin! I innocently built Benjamin "Bennie" Underhill and passed it on to my DM. What followed was the best face I'd ever gotten out of a DM in headlights. He said, "How the heck did you get 8 bennys?," he knew about luck/great luck, but not so much about all the rest. I'm not even sure he realized how silly it will be when I start Spirit Swapping for trait rolls. Did a little math I can roll a benny every and average of 1/30 mins (as per the normal length of our gaming sessions). Just to make sure I use them and if any of my other games have held evident that's a very doable rate. Oh, and if your worried about ruining the game and what not, that's what we do to each other, we are all habitual min-maxers. Enemies are min-maxed too...

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#102 Postby Freemage » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:09 pm

Renlim wrote:
Wikrin wrote:Personal concept: Luck, Great Luck. Half-Folk, Young. MARS roll, trade for Fortune Favors the bold and Spiritual and Determined. 8 Bennies. Follow? Starting edges, take Arcane Background: Miracles and Profession to bump spirit to d12+1. Hero's journey, MARS characters can roll on any table, even if it doesn't make sense. Spend two rolls on Psionics, trade so you can spend a Benny to use spirit in place of a roll. With advancements, pick up Adept so you can Boost Traits yourself as a free action. Pick up Elan. (Psionics table ability technically modifies a trait roll, so it works.) Assuming you can get boost traits off, you can now roll minimum 1d12+4 eight times a session, to do anything you want. Love it.

Buddy helped with the concept. Assumes use of the Fantasy Companion. Otherwise go human, get Expert for the extra +1.

You can't do much, but what you can do is everything.


Actually, I can push it past there. Ditch Half-Folk. Give your GM a spiked drink so he's not paying close attention.

Use your free Human Edge on Sidekick. Your Sidekick is also human, and starts with the standard cheese Hindrance package of Loyal (to you), Major Vow (to serve you) and Quirk (dresses like a Victorian butler). For his starting Edges and POC rolls, take Luck, Great Luck, Fortune Favors the Bold, Spiritual & Determined, and... Common Bond. Instead of 8 Bennies, you effectively have 14. Oh, may as well spend the actual advances on some flavor of spell-casting (Techno-Wizards are always nice) so that he can provide magical support/gear to the primary character, too.

Worst part is, I can write the background justifying it. Obviously, with Young, et al, your character is The Chosen One. So his companion is his protector-advisor, assigned by the Order of Light (or whoever) to guide you and support you as you fulfill your destiny.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#103 Postby pkitty » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:13 pm

pkitty wrote:Okay, I had to do it -- I made a character based on the "maxed out Sidekicks" idea. No cheap tricks, either -- she's just built as a M.A.R.S. Personal Concept human, for a total of five Edges that were free-and-clear to fill with Dragon Hatchling Sidekicks. :)


And I just updated her, both to better match the "mother of dragons" concept but also to show that it's easy to break a character two ways by also giving her skills like Persuasion d10+9 (which can become d12+12 with a maxed Boost Trait) to make her will unthwartable as well.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#104 Postby Spamotron » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:29 pm

pkitty wrote:
pkitty wrote:Okay, I had to do it -- I made a character based on the "maxed out Sidekicks" idea. No cheap tricks, either -- she's just built as a M.A.R.S. Personal Concept human, for a total of five Edges that were free-and-clear to fill with Dragon Hatchling Sidekicks. :)


And I just updated her, both to better match the "mother of dragons" concept but also to show that it's easy to break a character two ways by also giving her skills like Persuasion d10+9 (which can become d12+12 with a maxed Boost Trait) to make her will unthwartable as well.


After reading the Sidekick edge in SW Deluxe I don't think it works. Normally you can only take a given Edge once. When you can take it multiple times the edges explicitly says so like Followers or Martial Arts Master. The Sidekick Edge only says you need to take it again to get a replacement if your current Sidekick dies. So I believe you can only have one Sidekick at a time.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#105 Postby ValhallaGH » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:42 am

pkitty wrote:
pkitty wrote:Okay, I had to do it -- I made a character based on the "maxed out Sidekicks" idea. No cheap tricks, either -- she's just built as a M.A.R.S. Personal Concept human, for a total of five Edges that were free-and-clear to fill with Dragon Hatchling Sidekicks. :)


And I just updated her, both to better match the "mother of dragons" concept but also to show that it's easy to break a character two ways by also giving her skills like Persuasion d10+9 (which can become d12+12 with a maxed Boost Trait) to make her will unthwartable as well.

You have to have Arcane Background to take Master of Magic (even if you get to ignore all non-Edge requirements). Tarmunchkin is picking up AB after MoM.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#106 Postby pkitty » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:21 pm

Spamotron wrote:After reading the Sidekick edge in SW Deluxe I don't think it works. Normally you can only take a given Edge once. When you can take it multiple times the edges explicitly says so like Followers or Martial Arts Master. The Sidekick Edge only says you need to take it again to get a replacement if your current Sidekick dies. So I believe you can only have one Sidekick at a time.


We already had this discussion earlier in the thread. As I said then, this build relies on the GM being dumb enough to allow it. :)
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#107 Postby pkitty » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:25 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:You have to have Arcane Background to take Master of Magic (even if you get to ignore all non-Edge requirements). Tarmunchkin is picking up AB after MoM.


Ehh, true. Don't think I can sneak that one buy on a "GM missed it" call either. Not a big deal; her magic is a distant third focus.

So, what HJ roll should I switch that to in order to keep her an annoying munchkin? The obvious combat move is to go for Level-Headed or Quick (via Exp & Wis), since a higher Initiative draw is more useful when it applies to a bunch of NPCs too. But it might be just as evil to take Education/11 for Politics d8 and another +2 to Persuasion (total d10+11). I don't think there's a "good for magic" option, since all of the legal and valid options are a bit boring.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#108 Postby Kodyax » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:50 pm

And here I have this boring concept of a dog boy mind melter.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#109 Postby ValhallaGH » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:57 pm

Kodyax wrote:And here I have this boring concept of a dog boy mind melter.

They're more fun when you use them to make a Crazy tracker. :mrgreen:
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#110 Postby Kodyax » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:01 am

I really need to type up the novice character and post him to that thread as I am going with a weird idea of renaming mind melter to psycho ranger and looking for some venue to play him.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#111 Postby dragonfett » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:23 am

Has anyone thought of making a melee Quick Flex Juicer? Pace 10 with a d10 run die? Holy Freaking $&%#! If I remember correctly, you can move before and after you attack, correct? Here is how I would use this character, sneak up to a group of enemies and start stealing as many ranged weapons from them as I could before the fight started, then run into and out of melee range disarming everyone until all that there is left are melee weapons, then walk into melee range, attack, then stroll out of melee range (and that is without running!).

I think I am going to stat him up right now as a matter of fact.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#112 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:06 am

dragonfett wrote:Has anyone thought of making a melee Quick Flex Juicer? Pace 10 with a d10 run die? Holy Freaking $&%#!

After the Juicer double Pace ability, it becomes Pace 20, d10 Run.
And yeah, folks have thought of that. But there are a lot of different ways to cross distances quickly.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#113 Postby Ndreare » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:36 am

When it comes to mobility it surprises me how often players overlook Burrow.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#114 Postby JurneeJakes » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:32 am

Back on the subject of Sidekicks, my ten year old daughter submitted to me the concept of a young magic user with a dragon for a sidekick. There doesn't seem to be any ruling against such a sidekick, but I'm curious what others think.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#115 Postby Brickulos » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:02 am

JurneeJakes wrote:Back on the subject of Sidekicks, my ten year old daughter submitted to me the concept of a young magic user with a dragon for a sidekick. There doesn't seem to be any ruling against such a sidekick, but I'm curious what others think.


It's legal.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#116 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:41 pm

Brickulos wrote:
JurneeJakes wrote:Back on the subject of Sidekicks, my ten year old daughter submitted to me the concept of a young magic user with a dragon for a sidekick. There doesn't seem to be any ruling against such a sidekick, but I'm curious what others think.


It's legal.

And adorably murderous.

I say you let the girl RP having a pet dragon. And try not to one-shot the thing with a chain long sword. :oops:
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#117 Postby pkitty » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:01 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:
pkitty wrote:
pkitty wrote:Okay, I had to do it -- I made a character based on the "maxed out Sidekicks" idea. No cheap tricks, either -- she's just built as a M.A.R.S. Personal Concept human, for a total of five Edges that were free-and-clear to fill with Dragon Hatchling Sidekicks. :)


And I just updated her, both to better match the "mother of dragons" concept but also to show that it's easy to break a character two ways by also giving her skills like Persuasion d10+9 (which can become d12+12 with a maxed Boost Trait) to make her will unthwartable as well.

You have to have Arcane Background to take Master of Magic (even if you get to ignore all non-Edge requirements). Tarmunchkin is picking up AB after MoM.

Actually, I realized that the simplest fix was to rejigger her AB to come from HJ rolls, then add Common Bond afterward! There, now (AFAICT) she's 100% legal, if still 100% broken. :)

http://mygurps.com/pics/Daenerys_Tarmunchkin.pdf
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#118 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:15 am

Looks legal.
Note that PPE in a TW item are only for keeping it charged. (Can't find the Clint citation for this, but it was within the last two months.)
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#119 Postby pkitty » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:51 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:Looks legal.
Note that PPE in a TW item are only for keeping it charged. (Can't find the Clint citation for this, but it was within the last two months.)

I remember that being in reference to the TW minor/major/legendary modifications, all of which use a very different phrasing than the EI&MG staff does.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#120 Postby Brickulos » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:47 am

pkitty wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:Looks legal.
Note that PPE in a TW item are only for keeping it charged. (Can't find the Clint citation for this, but it was within the last two months.)

I remember that being in reference to the TW minor/major/legendary modifications, all of which use a very different phrasing than the EI&MG staff does.


The Staff has essentially two Power Points edges.


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