[Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

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kurseteller
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#41 Postby kurseteller » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:51 pm

Ndreare wrote:Has anyone else had a player build
Cyber knight
Fighting d12
Cyber-kenetic combat -2 to technology based attack rolls
Block +1 Parry (bonus from intense combat training)
Improved Block +1 Party (bonus from intense combat training)
Dodge -1 to be hit with ranged attacks (hindrance)
Weapon Master Psi-Sword +1 Parry (hindrance)
Master of Arms Psi-Sword +1 Parry (hindrance)
Master Psionic (experience & wisdom tables roll 15)
Improved Dodge -1 to be hit with ranged attacks (training roll 16)
Second Nature on Deflection (Psionics table 11)

This guy's basic Parry is 12 he is -2 to be hit with ranged attacks, an additional -2 to be hit with technology and once he activated Mega Deflection he is -6 more to be hit.
In melee a character will have to roll a 18 to hit him with claws, a 20 to hit him with a vibro blade .
At range you need a 12 to hit him or if the attack uses technology you need a 14!


I'm in love!!! He's like a Super Jedi!!!!

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#42 Postby Ndreare » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:55 pm

To make it better at Heroic he increases the penalty to -4 by taking his Cyber-Knight exclusive edge.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#43 Postby Ndreare » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:57 pm

kurseteller wrote:
Ndreare wrote:Has anyone else had a player build
Cyber knight
Fighting d12
Cyber-kenetic combat -2 to technology based attack rolls
Block +1 Parry (bonus from intense combat training)
Improved Block +1 Party (bonus from intense combat training)
Dodge -1 to be hit with ranged attacks (hindrance)
Weapon Master Psi-Sword +1 Parry (hindrance)
Master of Arms Psi-Sword +1 Parry (hindrance)
Master Psionic (experience & wisdom tables roll 15)
Improved Dodge -1 to be hit with ranged attacks (training roll 16)
Second Nature on Deflection (Psionics table 11)

This guy's basic Parry is 12 he is -2 to be hit with ranged attacks, an additional -2 to be hit with technology and once he activated Mega Deflection he is -6 more to be hit.
In melee a character will have to roll a 18 to hit him with claws, a 20 to hit him with a vibro blade .
At range you need a 12 to hit him or if the attack uses technology you need a 14!


I'm in love!!! He's like a Super Jedi!!!!


Yep he is nowhere near as powerful as my Line Walker with 74 toughness. But he is 100% cooler.

OracleBoyd
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#44 Postby OracleBoyd » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:09 pm

Ndreare wrote:To make it better at Heroic he increases the penalty to -4 by taking his Cyber-Knight exclusive edge.


He's probably better off taking it in place of one of the Parry edges. And dont forget that a free action Boost Trait can give him another +2/+4 to Fighting and thus another point or 2 of Parry.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#45 Postby OracleBoyd » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:11 pm

Ndreare wrote:
kurseteller wrote:
Yep he is nowhere near as powerful as my Line Walker with 74 toughness. But he is 100% cooler.


Pictures or it never happened.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#46 Postby Ndreare » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:21 pm

OracleBoyd wrote:
Ndreare wrote:
kurseteller wrote:
Yep he is nowhere near as powerful as my Line Walker with 74 toughness. But he is 100% cooler.


Pictures or it never happened.

This thread post 20 and 21.
He was wedged between debates on game mastering and none noticed.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#47 Postby OracleBoyd » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:30 pm

Cool,

I think I lumped that build together with the Mystic version in my head. Can you boost the same Trait more than once?

ValhallaGH
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#48 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:33 pm

Edit: I'm wrong, it does stack (as the power says). You do need to track the duration of each casting, though.

OracleBoyd wrote:Can you boost the same Trait more than once?

Doesn't stack. Just overlaps duration. Use the most powerful casting (with Raise versus success).
Last edited by ValhallaGH on Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#49 Postby Ndreare » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:38 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:
OracleBoyd wrote:Can you boost the same Trait more than once?

Doesn't stack. Just overlaps duration. Use the most powerful casting (with Raise versus success).

That is incorrect, the book states
"
Multiple castings stack, though the caster must keep track of when each casting expires as usual."

But as a line Walker sitting at a Ley Line you do not care about maintenance cost.


Edit: I would add that it is the only power I know of that allows stacking.
Last edited by Ndreare on Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Behati
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#50 Postby Behati » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:41 pm

That Super Jedi/Cyber Knight build doesn't have Major Psionics.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#51 Postby Ndreare » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:45 pm

Behati wrote:That Super Jedi/Cyber Knight build doesn't have Major Psionics.

Oh, dang it, that makes it two points off.
But he has two more rolls on the tables, he can trade two for one and get another edge to replace one of his other ones or another professional edge (Major Psionic) with it.

The doubling of ISP will give him longer to walk untouched in battle too.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#52 Postby Behati » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:52 pm

The downside to this area AOE weapons as I found out the hard way. Friendly Glitter Boy fires an enemy several squares ahead of me, he misses and it deviates towards me. Since AOE doesn't go against how hard it is to hit you, it really screws you over. Deflection helps with the AOE, but its a 4d12+6 AP 25 weapon, meaning you're pretty much toast.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#53 Postby Ndreare » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:07 pm

Behati wrote:That Super Jedi/Cyber Knight build doesn't have Major Psionics.

As an aside, the roll on the table specifically states you ignore requirements.
So unless the Game Master forces you to, you do not need to have Major Psionic.

PS: I would think most GMs will veto every idea in this thread.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#54 Postby Brickulos » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:11 pm

But there is a bit at the start that states that the only requirement that can't be ignored is the requirement of other edges.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#55 Postby Ndreare » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:18 pm

Brickulos wrote:But there is a bit at the start that states that the only requirement that can't be ignored is the requirement of other edges.

Nope you're thinking of the combat that is available on the training table. No such restriction on that experience and wisdom table

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#56 Postby Brickulos » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Sometimes, a roll grants an Edge to a character. Unless otherwise indicated, the character may take the Edge without meeting the normalrequirements, Rank or otherwise. The exceptions are any Edges
that have direct predecessors; a good example of this is Improved Frenzy, which would require Frenzy to be taken before it P.132


I'm pretty sure Major Psionic counts as a predecessor to Master Psionic.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#57 Postby Ndreare » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:43 pm

The point is moot because as I said before he has two extra rolls and can simply change his build to add follows. However a direct predecessor would be an improved version of an ability such as going from + 1 to + 2 or reducing a - modifier by half and then ignoring it.
However we may disagree so here is the build to satisfy your understanding of the rules.
He still has those two extra rolls, but he can use those for whatever he wants, perhaps Invisibility which would let him on a raise go to -8 to be detected or hit which is 2 better than his current build.


Cyber knight
Fighting d12
Cyber-kenetic combat -2 to technology based attack rolls
Block +1 Parry (bonus from intense combat training)
Improved Block +1 Party (bonus from intense combat training)
Major Psionic (hindrance)
Weapon Master Psi-Sword +1 Parry (hindrance)
Master of Arms Psi-Sword +1 Parry (hindrance)
Master Psionic (experience & wisdom tables roll 15)
Dodge -1 to be hit with ranged attacks (training roll 16)
Second Nature on Deflection (Psionics table 11)

This guy's basic Parry is 12 he is -1 to be hit with ranged attacks, an additional -2 to be hit with technology and once he activated Mega Deflection he is -6 more to be hit.
In melee a character will have to roll a 18 to hit him with claws, a 20 to hit him with a vibro blade .
At range you need a 11 to hit him or if the attack uses technology you need a 13!

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#58 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:07 pm

Ndreare wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:
OracleBoyd wrote:Can you boost the same Trait more than once?

Doesn't stack. Just overlaps duration. Use the most powerful casting (with Raise versus success).

That is incorrect,

Yep, it sure is. I'll edit my previous post.
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

drone4416
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#59 Postby drone4416 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:00 am

I have one GB Boom Sniper (lucky rolls are required but this is a theoretical min max thread so meh)(Also Born a Hero is wonderful)
Be Human
Attributes need d8 in Vigor and Spirit
Only skill that is important is Shooting d12
Pick hindrances(Need the extra edges)
With edge from human take Trademark Weapon(+1 with weapon)(Boom Gun)
Spend Hindrance points to get Professional and Expert Shooting
Heroes Journey time, spend all 5 in cybernetics
Cybernetics you want(this is where luck comes in, going to need 19-20 a lot): Optics Package (Necessary for other stuff), Range Data System (negates 2 points of Shooting penalties), another Range Data System(can be taken twice but only twice),Targeting Eye (+2 shooting rolls), Cyberwired reflexes (For some future thing)

Alone you now Shoot with a d12+2+1+2 Negate 4 penalties from cybernetics and 2 from GB armor. Shoot people in the head for laughs.
Now get friends. I suggest mystics as they have the highest potential starting money(Rich ones are preferable). Have them buy you two Cybernetic combat edges, Improved Trademark and Marksman(Can't move when you fire the single shot Boom gun) another +3 to shooting.

Laugh as you shoot people in the head with and AOE death cannon.

I think this all adds up but I am tired and a little out of it.
Party: Why can't we sneak in.
Me: You had me bring a mini-gun.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#60 Postby Damian Magecraft » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:19 am

drone4416 wrote:I have one GB Boom Sniper (lucky rolls are required but this is a theoretical min max thread so meh)(Also Born a Hero is wonderful)
Be Human
Attributes need d8 in Vigor and Spirit
Only skill that is important is Shooting d12
Pick hindrances(Need the extra edges)
With edge from human take Trademark Weapon(+1 with weapon)(Boom Gun)
Spend Hindrance points to get Professional and Expert Shooting
Heroes Journey time, spend all 5 in cybernetics
Cybernetics you want(this is where luck comes in, going to need 19-20 a lot): Optics Package (Necessary for other stuff), Range Data System (negates 2 points of Shooting penalties), another Range Data System(can be taken twice but only twice),Targeting Eye (+2 shooting rolls), Cyberwired reflexes (For some future thing)

Alone you now Shoot with a d12+2+1+2 Negate 4 penalties from cybernetics and 2 from GB armor. Shoot people in the head for laughs.
Now get friends. I suggest mystics as they have the highest potential starting money(Rich ones are preferable). Have them buy you two Cybernetic combat edges, Improved Trademark and Marksman(Can't move when you fire the single shot Boom gun) another +3 to shooting.

Laugh as you shoot people in the head with and AOE death cannon.

I think this all adds up but I am tired and a little out of it.
can't make called shots with AoE. But outside of that still a nasty build.
As a GM I live by one hard and fast rule:
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"


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