[Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

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ValhallaGH
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#81 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:28 pm

Three seconds of Nelson-like pointing and laughing, followed by the declaration, "You are dead."

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#82 Postby Mad Paladin » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:08 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:Three seconds of Nelson-like pointing and laughing, followed by the declaration, "You are dead."

"Dude, even the Cyber-Knight is laughing at you."

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#83 Postby Malifice » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:00 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:Just be an army of Cyber Knights. :lol: Three or four hundred of them can handle most anything fairly easily.
I straight told my players, "Your Sidekicks cannot have Sidekicks. Nope. Not going to happen."


'I'm running your sidekicks' works much better.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#84 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:25 am

Malifice wrote:'I'm running your sidekicks' works much better.

That's the default.
Players run them during combat, like most allies, but the GM role plays them because they are non-player characters. Letting the players role play their sidekicks is ... unusual.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#85 Postby Freemage » Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:19 am

ValhallaGH wrote:
Malifice wrote:'I'm running your sidekicks' works much better.

That's the default.
Players run them during combat, like most allies, but the GM role plays them because they are non-player characters. Letting the players role play their sidekicks is ... unusual.


Oh, sure, but obviously, someone who shows up at the table with a binder full of Sidekicks is expecting to take advantage of them in combat.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#86 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:46 am

Good. I've run 6 Wild Cards in one combat. It's a pain in the neck. Let him find out how not-fun that is.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#87 Postby Alrik_vas » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:02 am

My sidekicks have sidekicks...

reminds me of the old days with D&D, taking leadership and having your cohort take leadership. You get to Lead score 25 and your cohort is like lvl 20 with a lvl 18 cohort of his own who has leadership and so on and so on.

Of course...once you do this, you pretty much leave all those chuckleheads at the castle, because managing them is too much of a pain. It's just funny to point out the army you have whenever someone fronts with you.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#88 Postby Ndreare » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:35 am

This strategy was used for hundreds of years in real life.
It was called feudalism.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#89 Postby Freemage » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:10 pm

Ndreare wrote:This strategy was used for hundreds of years in real life.
It was called feudalism.


If you want to go full-time feudal, make sure all the Sidekicks spend one or more of their other starting Edges on Followers.

Edit to Add:

Okay, okay, wait, this is letting me go even deeper....

Sidekick, x2....
As racial Edges.

It's a quasi-feudal race, everyone with some place on a chain of dominance. When you get to the bottom of the chains, you end up with characters from subjugated races. Like, y'know, Flame Wind Dragon Hatchlings.

Entire 'nations' schism whenever a person near the top dies, as all his subordinates become 'free agents', ruling their own fiefdoms with no recognized authority overhead.

Actually, that sounds like a potentially interesting setting. Not for Savage Rifts, but a nifty world-concept. Kind of similar to the Tharkoldu from the old TORG RPG, really.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#90 Postby OracleBoyd » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:06 pm

Anyone have a really good Mind Melter or MARS Psionic build?

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#91 Postby Ndreare » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:43 pm

OracleBoyd wrote:Anyone have a really good Mind Melter or MARS Psionic build?

Mind Melter with Mentalist, Puppet and improved level headed d12 psionics, pretty much owns the day.
He takes control if the most powerful enemy using 4 ISP for a +2 and activates Invisibility whatever defensive power he has, preferably with Second Nature so he does not have to roll.
The Mind Control part of Puppet has turned out to be way powerful, even with the concentration modifier.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#92 Postby Novac » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:18 am

Altera juicer. When last call is coming around, spawn a whole new you and pass over the rig.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#93 Postby Kendermage » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:50 am

Cast Greater Smite on the Glitterboy's Boom Gun Ammo.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#94 Postby Damian Magecraft » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:41 am

Novac wrote:Altera juicer. When last call is coming around, spawn a whole new you and pass over the rig.
heh...
not a bad work around for the faster death arc in SR.
As a GM I live by one hard and fast rule:
It is not a good session until at least one player looks you in the eye and says "you sick twisted evil ****"

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#95 Postby pkitty » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:23 pm

Okay, I had to do it -- I made a character based on the "maxed out Sidekicks" idea. No cheap tricks, either -- she's just built as a M.A.R.S. Personal Concept human, for a total of five Edges that were free-and-clear to fill with Dragon Hatchling Sidekicks. :)

Posted in the characters thread: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=50040&p=453876#p453876
Fan of Deadlands, quickly becoming a fan of Savage Rifts.
My Savage Rifts house rules, resources, and sample characters.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#96 Postby King_Burgers » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:07 pm

I'm not sure if this is actually viable, but as far as I know, there is no limit to how high you can increase a skill via cybernetic skill chips. So let's make us the ultimate cyber sniper! A creature who exists only to shoot people impossibly well at any range conceivable.

It's also unclear to me if as say, a Headhunter, you get 6 strain worth of cybernetics for free, and you pick skill ports, does that include any skill chip as well in the *free* price? Let's assume yes it does.

So you roll up a average bloke who with a combination of advances, race, and MARS advances has, D4 Agility, D4 Smarts, D12 Vigor, D12, Spirit, D4 Strength, and he starts with Upgradable edge. So starting strain is 18 (12+6) and let's just get us some cybernetics assuming money is no option.

Listing implants, by strain:

1: Cyber Wired Reflexes (Agility +1 die type)
2-17: Wired Skillport (Shooting +4 die types) (x17) - As far as I can tell, there is nothing that says you can't raise a skill over D12 via cybernetics!

And let's just happen to put his 15 skill points and some points from an advance into Shooting up to D12 (8 points) and notice up to D12 (8 points) and has used one of the edges he has at some point to get Trademark Weapon, and I think it's possible to use Hero's Journey tables to get Improved Trademark Weapon as well (Shooting +2), and Steady Hands Edge. He also get himself a JA-9 Laser Rifle (negates upto -2 Shooting penalties, max range 160") for good measure.

So we have this random skillport covered dude with a Shooting of D12 (base) +68 (ports) +2 (T.W.) that negates generic -2 (scope) and the additional -2 while unstable (steady hands)

So yeah, I can't think up enough penalties to make this guy miss on average.

Moving -2
Extreme Range -8
Blind -6
Called Shot to tiny area -6
Alert Enemy (no drop bonus)
Near Total Cover -8 (or was it -6?)

Still, the result on the other side is still D12+50 or so. Is it possible for him to miss without a raise??

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#97 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:58 pm

Critical Failure always misses.

... While I wouldn't let skill ports stack for the same skill, that's actually worth asking about for an official ruling.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#98 Postby Clint » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:28 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:... While I wouldn't let skill ports stack for the same skill, that's actually worth asking about for an official ruling.


Any skill chip can add "up to four die types," but that's it. A character can't get more than four die types to any skill. Multiple chips are just the same chip multiple times, and they don't stack any more than running 17 copies of a spreadsheet makes the first version calculate faster.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#99 Postby King_Burgers » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:38 pm

Any skill chip can add "up to four die types," but that's it. A character can't get more than four die types to any skill. Multiple chips are just the same chip multiple times, and they don't stack any more than running 17 copies of a spreadsheet makes the first version calculate faster.


Ah, that makes sense. I suppose the wording in the SFC is more clear about that since I decided to check if there was the same wording. Ok, so here's another idea :twisted:

Another much simpler fun build is to just make a Combat Borg strain put into Strength, raising it from the starting D12+2 all the way to D12+8, making him stronger than all the power armor, and if you also manage to get Brawny in there, the carrying capacity becomes 20 TONS and max weight of 80 TONS. Which means you could casually wield a tank as a melee weapon, and deal a hefty 2D12+16 Mega Damage per swing. Plus, you can use it as an impromptu MDC shield by holding it in front of you, haha. You could also get the "beyond the edge" edge or whatever it was called to get the additional +6 strain, and go up to a D12+14. OFF THE CHARTS POWER!

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Re: [Savage Rifts] Loopholes, Min-Maxing and other concepts for Fun and Profit

#100 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:43 pm

Combat cyborgs have no upper limit to their physical Attributes (Agility, Strength, and Vigor). The only limit is the number of Advances they spend on them.
With 80 experience, and zero Strain, a 'borg can have Strength d12+7. Combine that with six Upgrade edges spent on strength enhancement, and you're looking at d12+13 Strength for zero credits.

However, a Crazy / Juicer has the same lack of limits and can get there much faster (and become unplayable faster :lol: ).
Put all five Attribute points and all four Hindrance points into Strength. That gives a human Crazy (or Juicer) a d12+5 Strength. If you stack it with an appropriate D-Bee (like a Strong Breed Dog Boy) then you could have Strength d12+6 (or more) as a starting character. That's a person with Robot Armor strength. And this person can get stronger at each Rank, with no limit, hitting d12+10 or +11 at 80 experience.

P.S. Clint, thanks for the feedback. I thought that was how it worked.
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